tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post4127072555111329919..comments2023-06-28T22:58:28.247+10:00Comments on Sixth In Line: Truby King babiesElisabethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-27000963015899808152014-09-03T20:10:51.423+10:002014-09-03T20:10:51.423+10:00My ex-husband was totally damaged by a mother who ...My ex-husband was totally damaged by a mother who wanted to raise the Ideal Son. Thanks to her and Truby King he has been severely depressed all his life, never have I or his family seen him happy, and he has made life a misery for all who knew him. I have never thought this his fault as I knew what a pernicious regime had been applied to him. What a total waste of his life!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-64705650071846386212014-07-20T21:32:52.833+10:002014-07-20T21:32:52.833+10:00I was a Truby King baby – and I wish that was not ...I was a Truby King baby – and I wish that was not so. <br /><br />I’m 59 now and dealing with my mother – now 91, frail and rapidly losing her grip on her faculties. While I feel compassion for her as she edges towards her death I find I can bring very little kindness to her in her current circumstance. Rather the best I can do is to react to her needs in a somewhat detached and clinical manner. Managing her needs as best I can, but limiting my engagement with her.<br /><br />The irony here is profound. <br /><br />This is, apparently, the way she dealt with me as a baby – teaching me “routine” and “obedience”. Teaching me that there was no point in my crying as she would not respond. Now she reaps the harvest of that behaviour. <br /><br />So sad – for us both.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-43123608413757788452014-07-05T12:02:32.513+10:002014-07-05T12:02:32.513+10:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16009008825444481260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-83192177329027225682013-01-31T10:04:30.343+11:002013-01-31T10:04:30.343+11:00I have heard of Truby King, Karatane nurses and Pl...I have heard of Truby King, Karatane nurses and Plunket. My mother was a Truby King trained nanny in the 30's and 40's before I was born. She is dead now and I can't ask her questions about the training. However, my daughter is in NZ and took her first child to a Plunket play group which was great. I have a NZ friend who is in her early 70's who was trained as a Karatane nurse and still is in great demand to help exhausted mothers of young babies.<br /><br />I don't know if my mother used the Truby King regeme to bring me up during my first few years, but I know she was the most loveing mother to me and my sister, and we suffered no hardship from her what so ever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-39189165243197415702012-08-31T17:32:38.145+10:002012-08-31T17:32:38.145+10:00I agree, Diane, baby rearing theories change acros...I agree, Diane, baby rearing theories change across generations. It's probably better if we trust our instincts in this regard, that is as long as our instincts are based in good-enough experiences. <br /><br />Thanks, Diane. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-20200465396219899182012-08-31T16:47:16.714+10:002012-08-31T16:47:16.714+10:00Baby rearing theories seem to change from one gene...Baby rearing theories seem to change from one generation to the next. My daughter does it slightly different to what I did. Sadly I think there was a tinge of King still around when I was being advised even though D Spock was in vogue then.diane bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12002292118984909883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-33268090857286673472012-08-20T20:14:37.553+10:002012-08-20T20:14:37.553+10:00I reckon it must be difficult to be a step mother,...I reckon it must be difficult to be a step mother, Zuzana, especially to adolescents. More power to you for taking on this role. And nine days of it on your own - wow.<br /><br />But it must also be a joyous experience, having as you say, an opportunity to experience something that might otherwise have been denied you.<br /><br />Thanks, Zuzana. <br />Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-27899433139620639002012-08-18T18:40:48.121+10:002012-08-18T18:40:48.121+10:00Dear Elisabeth, I am not a mom, despite the fact t...Dear Elisabeth, I am not a mom, despite the fact that it was the only thing I ever wanted from life (and finding someone to love) - well getting 50% of my wishes come true is not so bad.;) <br />But my destiny wanted otherwise, and now I am a step mom.;) Actually am going to take care of my 3 step kids for 9 days on my own, starting today.;) It is a funny thing be "thrown" into parenthood. I do not not hold the slightest clue about raising kids, teenagers that is. I can only follow my instincts and the memories from my own childhood. Now in my old age I take comfort in the saying "Any idiots can have kids and they usually do", so I guess not everyone is fit for parenthood - but I just tend to believe in my naivete that all parents try their best.:)<br />Sorry about your moms failing memory, in some way it is most likely very comforting to recall the long gone past and only the good things about it.;)<br />Have a nice weekend,<br />xoxoZuzanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02137958790178864561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-29055790476296950852012-08-16T13:58:48.427+10:002012-08-16T13:58:48.427+10:00The degree to which patriarchal authority lives on...The degree to which patriarchal authority lives on today is scary, Aguja but hopefully things are beginning to balance out a bit more - though we're not there yet. And mothers - at least in some places - can better stand up for the needs of their babies. <br /><br />Thanks, AgujaElisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-1835505617860644442012-08-16T13:56:04.476+10:002012-08-16T13:56:04.476+10:00I remember the Papa song too from my childhood too...I remember the Papa song too from my childhood too but I don't have your wonderful recall for the singers of the song and their lives, Rhymeswithplague. <br /><br />And aren't you lucky you weren't a Truby King baby. <br /><br />Thanks RWP Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-39347006490700382962012-08-16T13:53:31.359+10:002012-08-16T13:53:31.359+10:00Traditions change across generations, Jane, as you...Traditions change across generations, Jane, as you suggest and certainly when a mother has many children, more than one or two expect the opportunity to nurse the babies on demand are somewhat reduced. <br /><br />The trend these days at least in the western world seems more infant friendly, though that's the theory not the practice.<br /><br />I'm glad your lot did well, which doesn't surprise me given your description of your mothering. Unlike your mother, I don't believe it's possible to 'spoil' an infant. But it's easy to deprive one.<br /><br />Thanks, JaneElisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-34693982697533168142012-08-16T13:47:50.222+10:002012-08-16T13:47:50.222+10:00Gertrud Mander's paper on Truby King is worth ...Gertrud Mander's paper on Truby King is worth a read, Christine, if you can get a hold of it. She describes Truby King as a man with a vision who believed that he was doing good. <br /><br />At some level some of his ideas were forward thinking but like so many ideas they were distorted into horrible caricatures of what instinctively most of would know is not helpful. <br /><br />A crying baby and most of us itch to pick the baby up rather than leave it cry. <br /><br />I'm glad you found this post useful. Thanks, Christine. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-48551341632138040472012-08-15T17:59:02.294+10:002012-08-15T17:59:02.294+10:00I don't know, Kirk, but I reckon we're all...I don't know, Kirk, but I reckon we're all a bit weird sometimes, even the so-called well adjusted. Mind you in families it often happens that one or another member holds down the weight of eccentricity on behalf of everyone else. Maybe hat happened in yours.<br /><br />Thanks, Kirk. <br /><br />Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-32570923916298026072012-08-15T16:54:19.997+10:002012-08-15T16:54:19.997+10:00I agree, Anthony, the ways in which my mother revi...I agree, Anthony, the ways in which my mother revises history into a saccharine sweet version of events, the way she wants to gloss over what she calls the 'yuk' bits is disconcerting, but she herself tells me repeatedly that for her there's no point in dwelling on difficulties from the past, they only make her sad. She'd rather only remember the happy times. As a consequence she tends to airbrush out the early lives of her children - the hardest time of her life I suspect.<br /><br />Thanks, Anthony. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-41837679459764631382012-08-15T15:55:48.743+10:002012-08-15T15:55:48.743+10:00I agree with you andrew about the importance of &#...I agree with you andrew about the importance of 'loving our children to bits', but how easy it is to fail in this regard.<br /><br />As for the ways in which our primitive forebears mothered, I gather from research that demand feeding was very much the norm. <br /><br />Truby King's approach might be an example of too much knowledge taken out of context and distorted to give the illusion of control and then stifling the recipients in ways that he did not imagine.<br /><br />Ah, the blindness of the seeing eye.<br /><br />Thanks, Andrew. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-51681060224278350392012-08-15T15:52:09.804+10:002012-08-15T15:52:09.804+10:00I'm grateful for your kind words, Rubye Jack, ...I'm grateful for your kind words, Rubye Jack, and I agree: we ignore the past at our peril. If we don't learn from it then we cannot improve our lives on the future.<br /><br />Thanks, Rubye Jack. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-38334612643172460722012-08-15T15:50:35.472+10:002012-08-15T15:50:35.472+10:00I'd like to think common sense prevailed, Pers...I'd like to think common sense prevailed, Persiflage, as it did with my mother but only in those early years when my father was away. <br /><br />It is fascinating as you say that women have had to bow to the authorial voice of the patriarch even when every ounce of their maternal fibre must have railed against it.<br /><br />Thanks, Persiflage. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-11654841408790158472012-08-15T00:03:41.864+10:002012-08-15T00:03:41.864+10:00Scary. Although it was often more difficult in tim...Scary. Although it was often more difficult in times past for a woman to assert herself in a relationship. And, what is more, it still goes on today, which is why I say, 'scary'. It upsets me to think about it.agujahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15857809123531088629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-75049044590651291362012-08-14T20:19:34.343+10:002012-08-14T20:19:34.343+10:00Perhaps it's the fact that I dwell on my memor...Perhaps it's the fact that I dwell on my memories sufficient to be able to enter them and to re-imagine events from my past that helps me to keep something of the past alive, Jim. Trying to remember is fundamental to me and as much as I hate the thought of losing my short term memory with increasing age like my mother, I relish the thought of going back to old memories with such clarity and precision. If only I had it now such that I could write about it. My memories feel like a deep well. There are times when I feel I've left the well dry and other times when I sense there's so much more down there. <br /><br />I certainly feel more detached from my memories, even the ones that were once emotionally laden, as if they have become someone else's. That's a good thing I think. It helps to write about events that are not too emotionally laden, at least not so much at the time of writing, though I also think it helps writing of such events that were once emotionally significant, otherwise i suspect they lack that zing. <br /><br />As for doctrine and rules about how to bring up children, I agree with you, fashions change as they do with most things and often our intuition is the best guide aided by commonsense and a pragmatic though aesthetically oriented education.<br /><br />Thanks, Jim. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-3576559721992706512012-08-13T17:36:22.868+10:002012-08-13T17:36:22.868+10:00The regimentation of mothers and babies wherever a...The regimentation of mothers and babies wherever and however it happens is sad to my way of thinking too, River. <br /><br />Babies and mothers need support and space to be with one another during those first few critical months but unfortunately society is not well disposed to the needs of many mothers and babies and as bad as Truby King's practices may have been in years gone by I reckon remnants of those attitudes remain in the way society forces things to move too quickly. The same goes with grief and all those stages in life that need quiet and reflection. <br /><br />Thanks, River. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-64236133675172826652012-08-13T17:32:22.325+10:002012-08-13T17:32:22.325+10:00Well. N'n , it's lovely to see you here an...Well. N'n , it's lovely to see you here and to read your heartening comment. I'm not familiar with 'freshly pressed' but shall check it out. <br /><br />As for the notion of my concern about not judging the past, it's more about not trying too hard to think about past events through the lens of present knowledge. Even though to some extent we can't avoid this. We cannot but think about the way things were and are except through where we've come from. <br /><br />I suppose in using the word 'judge' here I am thinking more in terms of not being too moralistic, though again of course there are things that we need to judge as appalling: genocide and the like. <br /><br />I reckon we need to consider the past in order to learn from it but I don't mean to impute contemporary motives to those who came before us and who did not have the advantage of knowledge as it advances up till today, any more than I hope I'm not judged by future generations for my behaviour and perspectives today. We all keep changing. <br /><br />I can look on my old self as a bit of a twit or I can empathise with her and have some understanding of where she might have come from. Likewise for Truby King, he was a creature of his times, as I said earlier.<br /><br />Thanks N'n. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-41904474026498597512012-08-13T17:22:00.133+10:002012-08-13T17:22:00.133+10:00Yes indeed, Windsmoke, it would seem the Truby Kin...Yes indeed, Windsmoke, it would seem the Truby King's efforts were better suited to robots than to babies. Thanks. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-18726603497576624382012-08-13T16:52:12.861+10:002012-08-13T16:52:12.861+10:00I agree Birdie, music is the great soother. It ca...I agree Birdie, music is the great soother. It can bring people together and help people in distress. It's a pity we fail to recognise more of the value of music than of these excessive rules that can systematise but also tend to destroy people's spirits.<br /><br />Thanks, Birdie. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-48443942882554311372012-08-13T16:02:54.140+10:002012-08-13T16:02:54.140+10:00I've been told my authorial voice steals energ...I've been told my authorial voice steals energy from the narrative, Elizabeth, so I'm glad to hear it makes some sense to you and offers relief. <br /><br />As for Truby King, he was a creature of his time. He presumably meant well, but in hindsight we can see how misguided his ideas were and many people have suffered as a consequence of them. <br /><br />Thanks, Elizabeth. Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-90241744793802786762012-08-13T07:00:06.127+10:002012-08-13T07:00:06.127+10:00Never heard of Truby King (thank God) but I certai...Never heard of Truby King (thank God) but I certainly do remember "Oh, My Papa". It was sung in the mid-1950s by Eddie Fisher (who left Debbie Reynolds to marry Elizabeth Taylor). "Oh, my papa! To me he was so wonderful! Oh, my papa! To me he was so good! Gone are the days when he would take me on his knee..."<br /><br />That certainly was not the way I remembered or felt about my own father, but the song is still stuck in my head too.rhymeswithplaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10870439618129001633noreply@blogger.com