tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post4621869038248969935..comments2023-06-28T22:58:28.247+10:00Comments on Sixth In Line: Who Owns the StoryElisabethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-59584992211221027322010-04-18T14:16:18.644+10:002010-04-18T14:16:18.644+10:00Yes, Angela. Those hounds never tire for long. J...Yes, Angela. Those hounds never tire for long. Just when you think they're asleep they jerk awake ready to bite, to tear you limb from limb and all you can do is duck for cover. <br /><br />Then you must wait it out, until the next quiet patch, when you can get on with your work. And never say die. <br /><br />Thanks, AngelaElisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-38760271486116155532010-04-18T14:13:27.580+10:002010-04-18T14:13:27.580+10:00Thanks, Aleks, for your comment here. I think I u...Thanks, Aleks, for your comment here. I think I understand that you are saying something about how everything we do is derived from somewhere and someone else. <br /><br />In that sense no one owns anything outright when it comes to writing and art. We might own the physical paper, the ink, the paint, the canvas the stone, but the ideas, the concepts and thoughts, they are all shared.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-40439563038652376762010-04-17T14:25:41.232+10:002010-04-17T14:25:41.232+10:00i'm waiting for those hounds to tire too.
or ...i'm waiting for those hounds to tire too.<br /><br />or for the tree to grow so tall i can't hear their growls and don't care about them anymore.angela simionehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05657554247759367168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-40949556268397775292010-04-17T13:32:10.736+10:002010-04-17T13:32:10.736+10:00When we are born are we born with the ownership of...When we are born are we born with the ownership of our words and deeds?<br />Or we are teached and preached what to think,how to think,what to like and what not? And than how far we are from the really our likings or choosing s when everything what we were reading,learning is coming from somewhere else? We learn words,letters,how to make sentences of thinking process or the sensations or emotions,if we are not able to put the words to work than the artistic(in my case nearly autistic)manners are born,and than,what is really ours? All of that in written word,made by hands,heads,hearts or human machines which came before us,how much of that is part of us?? Than how can you speak of ownership? That is more and closer to the point I was trying to reach with my answer,thank you for listening! So! Greetings from me!b :O)Alekshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07514059217994184072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-39380027080083079522010-04-17T10:43:11.180+10:002010-04-17T10:43:11.180+10:00Monica, how kind of you to respond here when it is...Monica, how kind of you to respond here when it is hard to write as clearly as you would like in English. <br /><br />I wish I could write in Dutch. One day I should ask my mother to translate for me and then you can have the pleasure of speaking to me directly. <br /><br />I will say once again as I have said to others I so admire your efforts to write English. We, who only speak the one language are not nearly so clever and so brave as you who struggle and succeed in communicating with others in a different language. <br /><br />As well, you describe very well here your argument about ownership and I agree with you entirely:<br /><br />'The writer creates a world for her words, her visions, her feelings about the story. The writer transforms the real world into her own universe. And the reader owns the feelings, thoughts etc, (s)he experiences when reading.'<br /><br />Thanks, MonicaElisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-29804891034795891922010-04-17T10:35:46.701+10:002010-04-17T10:35:46.701+10:00Tony, you describe it so well, this battle over ow...Tony, you describe it so well, this battle over ownership. <br /><br />It reminds me of all the legal hassles that erupt over intellectual property and copyright. <br /><br />A woman once write me a letter threatening to sue me if I ever spoke again about her or certain of her connections again. <br /><br />It's a long story and I shall not go into it. I was comforted by my husband who talks about the three aspects that underlie legitimate claims: Duty of care, Breach and Damages. <br /><br />To begin one needs a duty of care towards the complainant. At some level as writers we hold a duty of care to the public. The second is that the complainant can demonstrate some sort of breach, some failure on the part of the writer to do the right thing - Slander or libel are good examples. And the third is that of damages - the offended person needs to demonstrate some level of damage done. It's not enough simply to feel miffed. <br /><br />I know the situation is more severe in America than here in Australia. At least here in Australia we are not quite as litigious, but the threat to sue someone merely because they have written something or done something that has offended you is still strong. <br /><br />What a combative world we live in and at the core if it all is the issue of what's mine and what's yours and whether or not we can share.<br /><br />Thanks, Tony, for your thoughts and this wonderful example.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-52757128133601464352010-04-17T10:19:07.092+10:002010-04-17T10:19:07.092+10:00Hi Elizabeth, you with the 'z' in your nam...Hi Elizabeth, you with the 'z' in your name as against mine with an 's'. <br /><br />I hope it doesn't sound as the the torturous thinking I go through is that of those postmodernists who go on ad nauseum about deconstruction etc. <br /><br />I am caught up in the postmodern, post post modern wave, and very relieved to be. In earlier times I would never have dared to write as I do, but I like to think that my concerns are more practice based. <br /><br />I am a pragmatist first and foremost. I like to write to be read and therefore I try to stay on the ground. Not for me the wonderful but arcane flights of theory that drive some people into fits of agony and/or delight. <br /><br />Still I think the abstract and theoretical work has its place, just not at my place.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-3787862839427783122010-04-17T10:12:55.801+10:002010-04-17T10:12:55.801+10:00Thanks Angela. You write with such wisdom. It be...Thanks Angela. You write with such wisdom. It belies your years. <br /><br />It seems to me that you and I struggle with similar issues - voice, trust, truth and untruth in writing etc etc. I'm about to post another piece on these issues. <br /><br />I also agree with your comment here about the need to be able to defend your voice, your writing. That need is hardest of all. <br /><br />I have a tendency to see things from multiple perspectives - my own mixed perspectives, all those contradictory views that run around my head - on the one hand this on the other hand that - as well as the perspectives that I deduce from others. <br /><br />It becomes very top heavy in the thinking department. In the end I have to trust myself, even against the baying of the hounds; even as I'm stuck up a tree with no way down except to wait it out and hope that the hounds will get sick and tired themselves of waiting and go off elsewhere for their pound of flesh. <br /><br />Please forgive me if this response to your comment is cryptic and full of mixed metaphors. I hope you catch my drift.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-47162124378632465612010-04-17T00:57:36.652+10:002010-04-17T00:57:36.652+10:00Hi Elisabeth,
such an interesting question, that m...Hi Elisabeth,<br />such an interesting question, that means also interesting comments.<br /><br />A story being told; the person in it is the owner of the experiences in real life, he or she can agree or disagree with the writers point of view, but the writer is the owner of the written story. The writer creates a world for her words, her visions, her feelings about the story. The writer transforms the real world into an own universum. And the reader owns the feelings, thoughts etc, (s)he experiences when reading. <br />So i think the writer owns the story, the words that create the story.<br />Pffff i wish i could write this in dutch haha, now i can't find the exact right words. But okay, this is what i think in the great lines. <br /><br />And i like your style a lot Elisabeth. I don't always comment because i don't always know what to write. But i love visiting your blog.<br /><br />Have a wonderful weekend!<br />Sweet greez, MonicaMomo Luna S!gnalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00170657311754852851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-79366844732931209032010-04-16T21:44:03.110+10:002010-04-16T21:44:03.110+10:00Not just with writing!
An Example:
2 years ago I w...Not just with writing!<br />An Example:<br />2 years ago I went to a small play in Bury.We were meeting a couple of friends at the Theatre.They lived locally but we had to travel a long distance.We arrived late.The Play had already started (I say "play" but it was a comical audience participation affair).We walked in & took our seats and were amazed to see our 2 friends up on stage with the actors.They had been dragged up on stage to take part in a sketch.<br />I was much taken with this ! I always carry a small camera in my pocket ( I have taken shots before\ without flash.the Theatre has always been fine with this & even used some on their website) Anyway.......I took a photo of one of the actors with my two friends.I later published the photo on my blog.<br />Somehow the actor in question (who himself has a blog)found out and started saying I was breaching copyright;they had asked before the performance not to take photos;etc etc.<br />Now,my question to him was who owned "the copyright" of any images of my 2 friends ?(who were pleased with both the photo & the blog.and who felt they had been duped into being made to go on stage in the first place & who felt they were slightly mocked by the actor anyway)<br />I took The Photo (my copyright?)<br /> the 2 subjects in the photo (their copyright?)<br />The actor & his Company (his copyright?)<br />The Theatre itself (their Copyright?)<br />My conclusion?Ownership can never be exclusive.tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03746435400444226665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-580290158416557102010-04-16T16:34:47.708+10:002010-04-16T16:34:47.708+10:00I have no idea. I was married once, a long time ag...I have no idea. I was married once, a long time ago, to a man who was studying for a PhD in English Literature. I always wondered at the unhappiness of his colleagues -- how tortured they were discussing deconstruction and all that literary theory. <br /><br />I'm a voracious reader -- always have been. I like what I like and am pretty snooty about it. But it basically stops there!Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313726816776097840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-40612415314956483922010-04-16T12:06:20.488+10:002010-04-16T12:06:20.488+10:00the notion of ownership implies responsibility. w...the notion of ownership implies responsibility. who is responsible for the comment i am leaving right now? you? nope- me. it is my responsibility not only to write clear sentences, but also to withstand the rebutal the refusal of what i've said. to defend my position (my story) when it is confronted. to defend my home (my voice) when it must be defended. and also my responsibility to welcome others in to my home. <br /><br />i definitely agree with the outlook that writer and reader are a pair... but until the piece finds its way out in to the world, there is nothing to read. it doesn't exist for us yet. and that's a good thing. it's yours and yours alone and the wrestling you do during that time makes it yours. you are the only one responsible for maintaining your voice. the pull is one of trust. i wrestle with this constantly- how do i finally trust my voice?angela simionehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05657554247759367168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-77628113136731962332010-04-16T08:45:02.408+10:002010-04-16T08:45:02.408+10:00I'm all for the notion of osmosis too, Dave, ...I'm all for the notion of osmosis too, Dave, but osmosis in an active sense of the word. <br /><br />I think we absorb other writings, often unconsciously, but the need to practice what we absorb is far from passive. Thanks, Dave. <br /><br /><br />Yes, Barry. Here you seem to be referring to that notion put forward by the wonderful, Roland Barthes - the death of the author. <br /><br />We might hold legal ownership of our written words, but the readers can claim their own interpretations and their manifold meanings.<br /><br />Thanks, Barry.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-48233301464834866882010-04-16T08:40:26.413+10:002010-04-16T08:40:26.413+10:00Thanks for the link, Kass. I checked it out. Inte...Thanks for the link, Kass. I checked it out. Interesting blog, though I'm not sure I need any new rugs at present. I'm too busy dealing with the dust from our re plastering efforts. Some of our walls have cracked through the drought. <br /><br />Thanks Davide, for your thoughtful response. I'm inclined to agree with you - the story is ours much like the air we breathe, but at the same time we share that air. We must take care not to pollute it. <br /><br />And thanks Aleks for your ideas. The idea that we are messengers rings true for me. Though, they shoot messengers, don't they? I have been shot at once or twice. I'm still standing but it can be scary. <br /><br />I too would love to chat with you. You have so much energy and enthusiasm. It's always refreshing to hear from you.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-33103833788212924732010-04-16T02:29:45.950+10:002010-04-16T02:29:45.950+10:00You raise an interesting and important question. I...You raise an interesting and important question. I have always looked at it this way---<br /><br />Legally an author owns his/her work and deserves appropriate compensation for it. <br /><br />However, a reader's understanding and appreciation of that work belongs to them. So, once published,the ownership of a work of art becomes a shared responsibility.<br /><br />By the way, I like your style.Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13824632356834631279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-64480778094650162482010-04-15T23:29:33.287+10:002010-04-15T23:29:33.287+10:00It's a process of osmosis, I'm sure; findi...It's a process of osmosis, I'm sure; finding your own voice, the sound of the writers you love and/or admire will be in there somewhere.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-40488565420998992462010-04-15T23:02:05.150+10:002010-04-15T23:02:05.150+10:00Hi Elisabeth,Im with Steven on this one, so I do ...Hi Elisabeth,Im with Steven on this one, so I do not have to repeat the same as I do believe we are just messengers!For people trying to make a living out their creativity that is different I think,and well, as soon you throw something on the market to be sold you automaticly are getting yourself in trouble cause there are so many of them who will shout out they were the first to come with certain idea or concept and we all know that is not true!There is no true ownership I think!The ones who would go so far to protect with violence what they say is theirs is one way of looking at it and oh,boy this is very interesting matter,I would love to come over and chat with few of you on this, as language is very important to bring these matters correct to the talking,listening companions!! <br />And Im not a Communist,maybe a socialist,more humanist and from there I start! Greetings from Holland and from me!!Alekshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07514059217994184072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-83997365529243806242010-04-15T02:57:47.180+10:002010-04-15T02:57:47.180+10:00I am reading the comments, yours is certainly a ba...I am reading the comments, yours is certainly a basic question...I was thinking that the story is yours in the same way that the air we inhale and exhale absorbs our selves and becomes ours for some time, the space of single breath, before being cast back out, with our own, each a little different, particular hues...Tommaso Gervasuttihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17137499390434949734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-44654783081527074032010-04-15T02:48:20.756+10:002010-04-15T02:48:20.756+10:00Elisabeth, I must reread your post and also all th...Elisabeth, I must reread your post and also all these comments,<br />the question Who Owns The Story? is for me a further pursuing of the issue concerning poetry or prose works that once written get a life of their own...Tommaso Gervasuttihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17137499390434949734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-89626652767606290472010-04-15T01:29:29.087+10:002010-04-15T01:29:29.087+10:00Elisabeth - Here's a link to an Australian blo...Elisabeth - Here's a link to an Australian blog where the author is hosting a give-away. I can't enter because they won't ship overseas. Thought you might be interested. It's for a rug.<br /><a href="http://ablemae.blogspot.com/2010/04/rugs-giveaway.html" rel="nofollow">Giveaway</a>Kasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05233330248952156754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-3813763170948599192010-04-14T22:59:44.248+10:002010-04-14T22:59:44.248+10:00Thanks, Cuban. I trust you're having a wonder...Thanks, Cuban. I trust you're having a wonderful time in Kuala Lumpur. <br /><br />It is indeed wonderful that you can read my blog from there as well as from London and that we can all communicate from so many different locations. <br /><br />Ah the joys of the Internet.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-26279923352907891832010-04-14T17:59:57.225+10:002010-04-14T17:59:57.225+10:00What a gem of a post. It's great to see that a...What a gem of a post. It's great to see that although I'm away I can still access thought-provoking posts like yours. Many thanks.<br /><br />Greetings from Kuala Lumpur.A Cuban In Londonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16423293358605007539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-39932987935049016352010-04-13T15:08:57.424+10:002010-04-13T15:08:57.424+10:00Books and stories have powerful effects on those w...Books and stories have powerful effects on those who write and read them, Jane. <br /><br />Thanks for our comment here. <br /><br />I agree with you, too, that writing comes easiest when you don't have such issues swirling through your brain. To me they are like the monkey over my shoulder and this monkey has been visiting me a lot lately.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-19055360898923559712010-04-13T15:06:12.698+10:002010-04-13T15:06:12.698+10:00Thanks, Phoenix. You're right I'm sure, t...Thanks, Phoenix. You're right I'm sure, the story belongs to everyone, and yet, that's not how everyone feels about their own story. <br /><br />Has anyone ever written about you in a way that left you feeling objectified? Has anyone ever taken a bit of your story and looked t it through their own lens and it has left you feeling dissatisfied because it is not quite how you see it, how you'd like to see it? How you'd like others to see it? <br /><br />This is the sort of 'ownership' I had in mind when I wrote the question, but of course it's impossible to get around.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-88281590751583706942010-04-13T09:05:44.295+10:002010-04-13T09:05:44.295+10:00I think it’s everyone the book touches, including ...I think it’s everyone the book touches, including the author, the readers, and the characters.<br /><br />I find it’s easier to write in my voice when I’m in the “zone” - simply writing and not thinking about what or how I’m writing.Jane Kennedy Suttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12519340747761460017noreply@blogger.com