tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post5609162349964482286..comments2023-06-28T22:58:28.247+10:00Comments on Sixth In Line: A psychological sandwichElisabethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-47979700949487376132011-02-18T08:48:56.612+11:002011-02-18T08:48:56.612+11:00You're right I suspect, Kleinstemotte, your mo...You're right I suspect, Kleinstemotte, your mother and her Prussian background, mine with her Dutch Catholic upbringing, though my mother was able to be more demonstrably loving than yours by the sound of things. <br /><br />Even so it's good we can change as parents over the generations otherwise life would get terribly stuck.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-84096540368557960982011-02-18T07:19:24.578+11:002011-02-18T07:19:24.578+11:00My mother used to write letters to me while we wer...My mother used to write letters to me while we were living under one roof. She wrote in the same style as your mom. Maybe it was what they were taught? Even as she was on her death bed she still found word to scold me, a mom myself! But I forgave her. The yardstick she used to measure my shortcomings was the same she used on herself. She came from a very strict Prussian background and never allowed herself to become very tender and affectionate except with her cat. Still I loved her. But I am different with my own daughters. Times have changed and I'm glad that we can be close, frank and still very affectionate.Heidrun Khokhar, KleinsteMottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16174142810114806410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-59353720759863494682011-01-28T01:21:13.477+11:002011-01-28T01:21:13.477+11:00The death of my most recent parent was nearly 20 y...The death of my most recent parent was nearly 20 years ago, so I rarely have an interest in writing about either of them. Maybe that's how it is with most people, although I did read a couple of books recently (the author only wrote three) by Moritz Thomsen. His last one was entitled "My Two Wars," and it was about World War II and about his relationship with his father who had been long since dead. I must confess that I couldn't see how his relationship with his father was on a par with WWII, although to him it was probably harder to live with, even in his old age. I find not having parents to be somewhat of a relief, although I do miss them. After all, it's my turn to die now.Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-7823368032029428682011-01-26T17:11:01.483+11:002011-01-26T17:11:01.483+11:00Perhaps your need to idealise your father, Kat, mi...Perhaps your need to idealise your father, Kat, might have had something to do with your relationship with your mother. <br /><br />I don't know, but it seems to me people sometimes show a preference for one parent over the other, as if it's a way of compensating for the defects of one over the other, and it can shift around.<br /><br />Thanks, Kat.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-18892269789563714652011-01-26T17:07:25.955+11:002011-01-26T17:07:25.955+11:00So who's the Hilary for, Eryl. It seems a ver...So who's the Hilary for, Eryl. It seems a very odd choice for a boy, unless it is a family surname.<br /><br />It's good you and your mother were able to get on again before her death. It seems so important. One of my brothers was warring with my father before our father's death and I don't think it has helped this brother in later years - too many regrets.<br /><br />Thanks, Eryl.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-33631790147504547012011-01-26T17:02:16.181+11:002011-01-26T17:02:16.181+11:00The illusion that all is well, is a powerful one, ...The illusion that all is well, is a powerful one, Robert and I agree with you it might well be a feature of our parent's generation, a way of keeping things going, in spite of their awfulness in days when divorce and the like were not so acceptable as today. <br /><br />I'd almost like to say sorry for the 'sorry'. It's a bit of a joke in our household, this tendency to say sorry almost by default. In some ways it's not so much an apology as an offer of regret. <br /><br />Thanks, Robert.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-55957669288512642862011-01-26T09:42:33.671+11:002011-01-26T09:42:33.671+11:00Your post brings up an interesting question. My fa...Your post brings up an interesting question. My father died when I was fourteen, before I started to battle with his old fashioned strictness. I am the youngest and for a very long time I idealized him. Since he died when I was a child, I kept my child's view. <br />It took decades to see him as a whole flawed but basically good human being. <br />My Mother and I are another very long story, let's just say that now that she has been gone for a decade too, I am coming to terms. She was a strong and interesting woman, but she did not really know how to be a mother. <br />Thanks for getting the old thoughts rolling.<br />KatKat_RNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14008977319279272365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-15237715670884645882011-01-25T10:46:59.411+11:002011-01-25T10:46:59.411+11:00Psychological sandwich is a great term, my mother ...Psychological sandwich is a great term, my mother did something similar, though orally. I never knew if she did it to sugar the pill or to protect herself from the anger she thought her criticism might cause. In my teens and twenties I was driven insane by her, but by my thirties I just thought she was bonkers and let whatever she said slide. Luckily as I neared forty some kind of shift took place in our relationship, I don't know why but we both started to listen to each other, and she began to see the value of other perspectives. Anyway, by the time she died, two days after my forty-fifth birthday, we were back to the friends we'd been when I was a child. <br /><br />My brother's middle name is Hilary, which always made me laugh when I was little.Erylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06008344023000459577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-944450202287585002011-01-25T09:15:08.468+11:002011-01-25T09:15:08.468+11:00I like the idea that your mother wrote letters to ...I like the idea that your mother wrote letters to you; as you say, it was the way which she most likely thought she could compose and present her case. <br /><br />But my mother as well had the tendency to pretend that things were well when they were not. I believe that is a product of their generation. I recall my mother lecturing me on how faithful my father had been to her. Later my father admitting to me that he had visited prostitutes. Between them the illusion that "all is well" seemed paramount.<br /><br />I love your blog and would never venture to offer anything that would smack of criticism, but really, you need never end a blog with an apology.Robert the Skeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863488312604865183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-24833644192812665642011-01-24T20:33:11.649+11:002011-01-24T20:33:11.649+11:00I broke from tradition with my children, too, Rive...I broke from tradition with my children, too, River, apart from the recurring Elisabeth. <br /><br />There are so many Elisabeths in my family tree on both sides, but then again it's not such an unusual name. I tried to get original with my daughters' names without being over the top. You, too by the sound of things. <br /><br />Thanks, River.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-66586426324902137532011-01-24T20:29:50.557+11:002011-01-24T20:29:50.557+11:00Mother and daughter as macaroni and cheese, Les, t...Mother and daughter as macaroni and cheese, Les, that's a powerful analogy. So tasty but also by the sounds of things so delicate.<br /><br />I'm not sure I'm as worked out about these things as is Kass. Perhaps you and I can form a group for those who need help to separate from their mothers. There'd most likely be pleanty of takers.<br /><br />It's good to hear from you here again. Thanks, Les.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-73789395048333684852011-01-24T20:25:39.240+11:002011-01-24T20:25:39.240+11:00That's my take on letter writing, too, Kirk. ...That's my take on letter writing, too, Kirk. No one answers back, no one interrupts you. You can say everything you want to say without taking a breath. <br /><br />Conversations are not like that, and as you say they're usually first drafts, but conversations can take you to places that you least expect sometimes more so than even in letter writing because there are two of you in conversation, not one. <br /><br />Letter writing is aways a tad one sided, but still I love it. <br /><br />And yes, you're right, even after my mother's gone, I have my sisters and brothers to contend woth. <br /><br />To me Kirk is a lovely name, filled with character and strength. I'm assuming Kirk is your real name. <br /><br />Thanks, Kirk.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-25461818010231412422011-01-24T18:44:14.184+11:002011-01-24T18:44:14.184+11:00My first name is my own, but my middle names belon...My first name is my own, but my middle names belong to my grandmothers. A glance through my family tree shows many generations of Emma's and Maria's, Bernhard's and Josef's. I broke tradition with my children.Riverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14794655013673748992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-88232151588218092362011-01-24T15:53:18.184+11:002011-01-24T15:53:18.184+11:00Dear Lis, as you know, my relationship with my mot...Dear Lis, as you know, my relationship with my mother is a very complicated matter. This tiny woman still fills the room from wall-to-wall, roaring or such is my take on her. I've talked much with Kass about her mother's dying and death last year, and I've read much of what you have written about your mother. You each seem to have landed or are aimed for a place of peace and resolution about mothers and the shadows they cast upon us.I am not as hopeful for myself. I don't know that I'll ever sort it out and I'm not entirely certain that to do so is one of my deepest needs. You used the sandwich analogy. My mother and I would be macaroni and cheese. One fears plunging a spoon in for fear of breaking the delicate pasta shells or causing a string of the cheese to be pulled apart.<br /><br />I was given a small part of my mother's name for my middle name, which I detest. When my daughter was born, I gave her the newest, free-est, breeziest, most meaningful name I could think of - she loves her name as I have always disliked both of mine.Leslie Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15702472429383639709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-75933706920261893492011-01-24T08:49:49.458+11:002011-01-24T08:49:49.458+11:00Though I'm not much of a letter writer, I see ...Though I'm not much of a letter writer, I see the advantages, even if you live close by the person you're writing to. The advantages are those that you get with any type of writing. No one interrupts you. You're not distracted by whatever expression (anger, boredom, etc.) that's on the other person's face. And finally, you can write and re-write a letter, until you think you've got it right, whereas verbal communication is always a first draft.<br /><br />You wonder if you'll write differently about your mother after you're gone. I'm assuming you're currently holding something back so as not to hurt her feeling. But once your mother's gone, you'll still have all those brothers and sisters. Might you not hold back anyway to avoid friction with them? Just a thought.<br /><br />I was named after a once-famous movie star. When I asked my mother if she was a fan of this particular actor, she said no, she didn't particularly like his movies, she just liked his name, which she had never heard of before he became well known.Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02155991693956178030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-46545373120917586942011-01-23T21:16:27.454+11:002011-01-23T21:16:27.454+11:00Thanks, Who.
Your kind words make me wonder mor...Thanks, Who. <br /><br />Your kind words make me wonder more about you. Your posts are cryptic and lead me into strange places. <br /><br />I always imagine my writing is self evident, but perhaps it is not. I try to write into my own truths as you do, but we are worlds apart, most likely on other sides of the world, and perhaps generations apart, too. <br /><br />Still I'm very very pleased to meet you here and I shall try to decipher your communications, Who. And I thank you for trying to decipher mine, too.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-11292569289780296682011-01-23T20:58:49.976+11:002011-01-23T20:58:49.976+11:00Yours is a lovely full name, Marja. I particularl...Yours is a lovely full name, Marja. I particularly like your first name and Hendrina, a variation on Henrietta or Henry, I suppose. I say that because I have a cousin named Hendricus, a good old Dutch name. His mother called him Drikkus. I'm not sure of the spelling.<br /><br />Again you are fortunate that your relationship with your mother is now at peace, as it were. <br /><br />Thanks, MarjaElisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-91078821113148941342011-01-23T18:21:02.847+11:002011-01-23T18:21:02.847+11:00I am constantly amazed at the quality or writing I...I am constantly amazed at the quality or writing I read online, I wouldn't let myself see it at first (how talented you are with written words) because it seems many of your topics are not the easiest ones to examine in each of our lives.<br /><br />Thank you for having the courage to examine them, and for being such a skilled writer that I continue reading them.<br /><br />Many days I feel the greatest tragedies in this world is when somebody believes it is not OK to be who they truly are. I know in my heart that such a flawed belief is not an inherent emotion nor is it the result of any natural progression.<br /><br />The saddest part is some person go their entire life, never understanding it IS OK TO BE WHOEVER THEY TRULY ARE. And that if I am not thoughtful with my words I can very easily implant such destructive, negative, horribly wrong thoughts into young peoples' minds, doing it with good intentions.<br /><br />Only persons who are hurting in the worst kind of ways, get lost enough to commit acts of evil against others. <br /><br />Inadvertently influencing a person's beliefs, that lead them to hate who they are, is the most destructive thing anyone can do while having good intentions.<br /><br />It may very well also be the most destructive thing anyone can do with bad intentions.<br /><br />I hope everyone gives some serious thought on how we may directly or indirectly influence others beliefs.<br /><br />again, thank you Elisabeth for facing what I often would rather not.whohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17685473418191606910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-41044384076276094012011-01-23T17:19:23.365+11:002011-01-23T17:19:23.365+11:00Rauf, I checked this out: Mario is a name that der...Rauf, I checked this out: Mario is a name that derives from Marius meaning 'manly' and although there's some suggestion that Mary is the female version of Mario, Mary and with it Maria, both mean 'star of the sea'. To me the names are very different.<br /><br />I agree with you about your notion that large numbers of children, and the chronic unavailability of mothers who must work too many hours, can thin the bond between mothers and their children. What a wonderful way of putting it.<br /><br />It's great to see you here, Rauf.<br /><br />Thanks.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-31718159690628205982011-01-23T17:13:52.669+11:002011-01-23T17:13:52.669+11:00It's a hard truth, Ms Moon, that bond of blood...It's a hard truth, Ms Moon, that bond of blood, of love and hate, between mothers and their daughters. <br /><br />I can rail against it but I'm also very glad for it. Attachments to me are the stuff of life.<br /><br />Thanks, Ms Moon.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-70907135990837802662011-01-23T17:12:52.118+11:002011-01-23T17:12:52.118+11:00Ah my first name is maria as well and the second i...Ah my first name is maria as well and the second indeed after my mothers mother. Hendrina and the third Elisabeth. I never thought much about the names as they only appeared on my pasport and that was it. My kids haven't got birthnames for just that reason.<br />I have had a complicated relationship with my mother for a while but she mellowed a lot as she got older and me probably as well. She is a darling now.Marjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17458942200244031009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-46056255507469865522011-01-23T17:12:05.477+11:002011-01-23T17:12:05.477+11:00And it's good to meet you here, too, Sy.
I ...And it's good to meet you here, too, Sy. <br /><br />I agree relationships between mothers and daughters are complicated, seemingly more so than relationships between fathers and their sons, but not I suspect compared to cross gender parent/child relationships. Of course, all this is a case of serious generalising, but don't we love to do that in blogdom? <br /><br />Thanks, Sy.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-53505185465348424072011-01-23T17:08:28.985+11:002011-01-23T17:08:28.985+11:00I'm glad you found the book suggestion, helpfu...I'm glad you found the book suggestion, helpful, Ellen. It's a terrific book. <br /><br />And it's great that you are now able to feel free from your mother's manipulations. <br /><br />To some extent I think I have managed to do so, too, but it goes up and down. My mother's needy gestures can still hook into my guilt. And that's the worst of it. Guilt does not make for a sense of freedom. <br /><br />Thanks, EllenElisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-87080155794252854632011-01-23T17:04:26.863+11:002011-01-23T17:04:26.863+11:00Hi Slouchy, it's great to see you here.
I...Hi Slouchy, it's great to see you here. <br /><br />I'm curious now about those things we have in common. I'll check out your blog and look for signs.<br /><br />Thanks, Slouchy.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-77290000544720389912011-01-23T17:02:48.192+11:002011-01-23T17:02:48.192+11:00Hey Jim, another thought, the sadness in your quot...Hey Jim, another thought, the sadness in your quote here is gut wrenching, coming from the hardheaded cynic that is your character. <br /><br />You can miss something you never had, I suspect, when you see others with it. You miss it in your imagination. A bit like my husband's colour blindness. He's never known otherwise and to that extent doesn't miss colour, but he knows others have more. He misses that. <br /><br />For me it's powerful writing, Jim, to evoke such a response.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.com