tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post8003739070514344226..comments2023-06-28T22:58:28.247+10:00Comments on Sixth In Line: Stalking and the Thirteenth FairyElisabethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-58175061300101950582011-01-14T12:20:23.355+11:002011-01-14T12:20:23.355+11:00Hope things look up for you Elisabeth, thanks for ...Hope things look up for you Elisabeth, thanks for dropping by my blog.whohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17685473418191606910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-40417158983173452812011-01-13T20:23:50.840+11:002011-01-13T20:23:50.840+11:00I too have been a prolific letter writer in my tim...I too have been a prolific letter writer in my time, Rachel. I still am to some extent. <br /><br />It is a way of writing I find - good practice - but by the sound of things it might sometimes be difficult for those on the receiving end unless they are otherwise likewise inclined. <br /><br />Thanks, Rachel.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-90701638597388302962011-01-13T07:39:08.683+11:002011-01-13T07:39:08.683+11:00I was stalked from my late teens to my early twent...I was stalked from my late teens to my early twenties - either side of a two year period of living away from my home town. Interestingly, my mother put a stop to it.<br /><br />And I lost a friend by the simple fact that she stopped replying. At first the letters got less frequent and then shorter and then more excuses as to why she was so busy. In one, tellingly, she said she had begun to dread the sound of the mail landing on the doormat!<br />I was a prolific letter writer!<br />After a period of almost a year of not hearing from her, I sent one last note to simply wish her well in her life. <br /><br />If I don't want to hear from people, I'm pretty straightforward about telling them.Rachel Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10046917627054462214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-7002737403993848312011-01-12T21:59:31.919+11:002011-01-12T21:59:31.919+11:00Phoenix, you are so wise. I agree with your notio...Phoenix, you are so wise. I agree with your notion of a stalker as one who forces inclusion and I can see that I use the term a bit glibly here. <br /><br />After all this I have now finally met my friend again yesterday over lunch and I can see more clearly now that his absence has more to do with him than to do with me, as you anticipated <br /><br />My friend's been unwell and obviously had a lousy year. Nor does he want to discuss the details with me. So I must bear my sense of helplessness and get on with it. <br /><br />My 'do-gooding' tendencies are not always welcome and I need to get on with it, relieved to know it's not a rejection of me but more a case of a friend whose life has been derailed. <br /><br />It is so easy to interpret every thing that happens to those who are dear to us as a function of ourselves. i must resist the impulse.<br /><br />Thanks as ever, Phoenix. Here's to a wonderful 2011.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-34565296193235454282011-01-12T21:49:26.925+11:002011-01-12T21:49:26.925+11:00Lost letters, love unrequited, it's excruciati...Lost letters, love unrequited, it's excruciating isn't it, Ruth? - to feel it more so than to read about it. Though even when we read about it we can all identify. <br /><br />It probably lies deep in the sensibilities of most people who write to feel these things more acutely than most. <br /><br />I think of Rilke and Rumi. They both knew it well, only they had an ability with words to help transcend it.<br /><br />Thanks, Ruth.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-50387228333092789362011-01-12T21:44:51.271+11:002011-01-12T21:44:51.271+11:00I'm losing it. That last re;ply should be dire...I'm losing it. That last re;ply should be directed not to Kass but to -K- East of LA. I saw the K in hyphens and thought Kass. Forgive me.<br /><br />I repeat my comment here to you -K-. <br /><br />I enjoyed O'Hara's manifesto and thanks for putting me onto it.<br /><br />It's well worth the read and puts me in mind of a quote I heard elsewhere tonight from Maya Angelou:<br /><br />'A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song.'<br /><br />Thanks -K-Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-76825948826650313912011-01-12T21:39:34.867+11:002011-01-12T21:39:34.867+11:00Thanks, Kass. I enjoyed O'Hara's manifest...Thanks, Kass. I enjoyed O'Hara's manifesto. Thanks for putting me onto it. <br /><br />It's well worth the read and puts me in mind of a quote I heard elsewhere tonight from Maya Angelou: <br /><br />'A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song.' <br /><br />Thanks, Kass.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-51018322131355220772011-01-12T12:54:43.152+11:002011-01-12T12:54:43.152+11:00I will disagree somewhat and say that stalking is ...I will disagree somewhat and say that stalking is not envy, it's what I would call Forced Inclusion. I think you summed it up a bit with wondering if the Thirteenth Fairy just hadn't hidden so well, she would have been invited and all would have worked out fine. But stalkers often feel like they are owed something - the lack of politeness in integrating themselves into someone's life is often a telling sign. And I have to say - writing an email to a friend, someone whom you already know - and then following it up with another email does not qualify as stalking in the most remote of universes. <br /><br />The Fairy thought she was owed something to be invited and included, and she was not, thus her wrath. Stalkers who are told in no uncertain terms that they have crossed boundaries are the most threatened, as the underlying need to be included is now being revealed the fact that they do not belong is exposed in the ugly light. Stalkers want to belong, more than anything, and they cling to those who give them that chance (and that attention.) <br /><br />Blogs certainly do create a space for people to assume they belong because the boundaries are electronic and blurred; the availability of a person is much more frequent; and of course, a wealth of information is available on most of us, thus giving the stalker a clear picture of our lives and therefore making the stalker feel as if he or she belongs in the picture.<br /><br />Also, for what it's worth: I have, in my great, vast, huge experience in this world (hah!) found that most of the time when a friend is unresponsive and uncommunicative - it is not personal. It is not about you at all, but rather the journey that your friend is simply on right now - and he or she may not have time for you, he or she may feel as if there is nothing to say - but I highly doubt it's about you.<br /><br />Much love to you this year. I know that 2010 was a challenge but I think we're both going to do (and be) great this year.Phoenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07477498671080132176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-77872608980913185392011-01-11T21:15:50.553+11:002011-01-11T21:15:50.553+11:00I get attached to people, and then I wonder why I ...I get attached to people, and then I wonder why I haven't heard from them. It is hard not to overdo, to hold myself back sometimes. So much can be read between the lines in distance relationships. It's hard enough with email, but thinking of snail mail letters, it is mind boggling. I remember recently reading a letter from John Keats to Fanny Brawne, and there seemed such desperation to hear from her. So many lovers over the centuries who have delivered their most intimate feelings into the hands of couriers, never knowing if they would reach their target, or if they would receive word back.Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14204074161539605133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-46637458187144644802011-01-11T03:54:40.542+11:002011-01-11T03:54:40.542+11:00When I get msyelf into this kind of thinking I re-...When I get msyelf into this kind of thinking I re-read a brief essay by the poet Frank O'Hara, "Personism." <br /><br />http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/20421<br /><br />Even if it doesn't address my particular issue at the moment, he encourages me to be a little bit more light-hearted about things and to, as he says, let the chips fall where they may."-K-https://www.blogger.com/profile/03289562368002376807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-57663014769574945872011-01-10T21:11:54.673+11:002011-01-10T21:11:54.673+11:00Thanks my fellow scorpio blogger, Cuban. you are ...Thanks my fellow scorpio blogger, Cuban. you are rigt, of course, stalking in its more formal sense is pathological, a possessive type of love that borders on hate. we might ense awhiff of it at times in ourselves but we an generally contain it.<br /><br />As for friends as you say particularly in bloggerdom, and as in life, friends come and go. <br /><br />I'm like this too I know. I try to visit everyone I follow regularly in the blogosphere but I simply cannot. Still I do my best. <br /><br />As I've mentioned to some others here, my fried has recontacted finally and we will meet over lunch together tomorrow. Such a relief.<br /><br />Thanks, Cuban.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-3101359913369614302011-01-10T21:05:41.652+11:002011-01-10T21:05:41.652+11:00I agree Hels - using English as we were taught man...I agree Hels - using English as we were taught many years ago at school is a bit of a losing battle. <br /><br />At the same time I think some people can have a unique way of expressing themselves in writing that makes me want to overlook their spelling and grammar mistakes. <br /><br />Others simply cannot write in a meaningful way and I'm inclined to be less forgiving. <br /><br />Thanks, Hels.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-70931027273323470372011-01-10T21:01:14.019+11:002011-01-10T21:01:14.019+11:00I'm inclined to agree with you, Robert, about ...I'm inclined to agree with you, Robert, about the need to respond to personal emails, or at least emails addressed to you as an individual, only it seems these days that not everyone responds in the same way. <br /><br />I know a number of people who scarcely even check their emails weekly, let alone respond to them in a timely manner.<br /><br />Some of us are slow to catch up with the technological revolution and the etiquette of email is still being sorted I suspect. What's rude to some like us, is commonplace to another. <br /><br />Thanks, Robert.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-13343141280505253862011-01-10T20:56:32.207+11:002011-01-10T20:56:32.207+11:00It's sadder I suspect when, as you say, you...It's sadder I suspect when, as you say, you're the one who walked away Jane, because in a sense you re responsible for that loss of friendship. <br /><br />At least in my case I still carry the illusion that I was the victim,though in this case, not any more. <br /><br />As I told Christine earlier, and as I should have mentioned to Zuzana, my friend has rematerialised and all seems well, at least so far.<br /><br />We shall see what time together tomorrow brings.<br /><br />In the meantime, is it too late for you to reach out to your lost friend again, Jane? <br /><br />People's feelings can and do change over time. You never know.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-39705558660305513622011-01-10T20:51:30.427+11:002011-01-10T20:51:30.427+11:00It's the paranoia, that gets to us Zuzana, a p...It's the paranoia, that gets to us Zuzana, a paranoia in the popular sense of the word. <br /><br />Such paranoia, it seems to me, is based on having too little information, not knowing what 's really happening and in our states of 'infantile' omnipotence, we are inclined to imagine the worst. And so it becomes, all my fault, which it rarely is. <br /><br />Thanks for the shared thoughts, Zuzana.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-38167180415101818482011-01-10T20:47:50.052+11:002011-01-10T20:47:50.052+11:00I know fantasies of having control over others is ...I know fantasies of having control over others is illusory, Laoch, but I cant help myself at times. <br /><br />Thanks though for reminding me.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-74456616464807491722011-01-10T20:46:09.962+11:002011-01-10T20:46:09.962+11:00My friend must have been 'temporarily disconne...My friend must have been 'temporarily disconnected', as Murray says, Christine. <br /><br />He finally recontacted on the weekend via email and we're meeting again tomorrow for lunch. <br /><br />So it would seem my worst fears about losing his friendship have not come to fruition though now I must contend with my own doubts about such a poor correspondent, one who takes so long to reply. <br /><br />Still all's well and hopefully I will be less sensitive about my friend's tardiness next time round. <br /><br />Thanks, ChristineElisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-43758010533139241412011-01-10T20:34:43.287+11:002011-01-10T20:34:43.287+11:00Fellow Scorpio, the possessiveness I don't sho...Fellow Scorpio, the possessiveness I don't show towards my wife, or rarely showed to any previous girlfriend was instead reserved for my friends.<br /><br />I understand your feelings because I have gone through a similar situation since I started blogging. Fret not, people come and go, the ebb and flow or cyber-energy renders this type of interaction normal.:-)<br /><br />Re stalking, I've always seen it from the point of view of it being a pathology, rather than love. Same with excessive jealousy. It's insecurity which, as we all know, can have nasty consequences.<br /><br />Many thanks for yet another brilliant post.<br /><br />Greetings from London.A Cuban In Londonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16423293358605007539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-74361818696134070722011-01-10T12:48:37.863+11:002011-01-10T12:48:37.863+11:00I hear you when you talk about being self-consciou...I hear you when you talk about being self-conscious regarding blog-English. You said: "that my spelling must look odd in some cases to my largely American audience of bloggers. Language is funny like that."<br /><br />Older bloggers from Britain, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and other countries want to write well. Largely they try to keep up the standards they learned in school and do not want to use bad (ie American) spelling, bad grammar or textese.<br /><br />I used to tell my students that I won't deduct marks for bad spelling. But as it annoys me, I will be in a very bad mood when I come to read their writing.<br /><br />In the long run, using good English is a losing battle, but you have to maintain your standards.Helshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02849907428208235392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-49728595285523644052011-01-10T10:25:49.732+11:002011-01-10T10:25:49.732+11:00My rule on correspondence, whether it is e-mail or...My rule on correspondence, whether it is e-mail or written, is that messages sent to me "individually" (that is, I am the only intended recipient), deserve a response, if nothing more than to acknowledge it's receipt.<br /><br />It used to annoy me no end at work to e-mail a co-worker with a question and have them just ignore it. Like did they think it was "lost in the mail". It made me wonder were I standing opposite them and verbally asked them a direct question, would they just stand there staring at me mute?<br /><br />Businesses are horrible at this. Like they want to appear "hip" by having an e-mail address. They are more often not returned. So what is the point?<br /><br />I think it is EXTREMELY RUDE to ignore an e-mail. If someone no longer wants to hear from you, if they think you are stalking, they have an OBLIGATION to tell you that.Robert the Skeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863488312604865183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-68956418815349119432011-01-10T09:24:26.070+11:002011-01-10T09:24:26.070+11:00I too, mourn the loss of friendship. I am comforte...I too, mourn the loss of friendship. I am comforted by the knowledge that I am not the only one. I am sad though, when I realize, that I may have been the one to walk away.Justjanesinsaneblog@blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03200295258976993524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-83264001904744535462011-01-10T07:33:26.855+11:002011-01-10T07:33:26.855+11:00Dear Elisabeth, I too dislike unanswered email let...Dear Elisabeth, I too dislike unanswered email letters or text messages. It is like when in a conversation the other party is ignoring you by not answering your questions, requests or statements. It is a prolong dialog that ends abruptly. Add to it my slight paranoia and i can imagine all kind of reasons to the silence.<br />Therefore I always try to answer all these way of correspondences myself to avoid causing anguish to others.;) Even though I know that sometimes the explanations to the silence are very reasonable and much less sinister than I often envision.;)<br />xoxoZuzanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02137958790178864561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-85332003981579650582011-01-10T05:53:23.348+11:002011-01-10T05:53:23.348+11:00Your post is lucidly expressed. Generally I feel ...Your post is lucidly expressed. Generally I feel that the idea of being able to control most situations is illusory. As such worrying about what other people will think or react is self defeating.Sultanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06506141014376919585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-23802857071441391252011-01-10T00:51:09.650+11:002011-01-10T00:51:09.650+11:00Hi, Elisabeth. Thank you for your comment on my bl...Hi, Elisabeth. Thank you for your comment on my blog!<br /><br />I agree with one of the earlier commenters that "I check my site meter all the time. I don't consider it an ivitation to stalk. I just to if my blog's being read. If not, then I'm talking to myself." I, too, hate talking to myself. But I also don't want to invite people with truly harmful intent into my personal life, so I'm always trying to balance how much I share.<br /><br />I don't think you are stalking by trying a few times to contact someone. I have had numerous incidences where email was unreliable for a variety of reasons. Stalking would be looking up their home and work phone numbers and calling them several times a day!<br /><br />I'm American, but quite the anglophile, so I love reading blogs with British spellings, and prefer "grey" to "gray" in my own writing.<br /><br />I hope that you hear from your friend soon, to put your mind at ease. Have you ever seen the movie "What about Bob?" starring Bill Murray and Richard Dreyfuss? It's one of the funniest I've ever seen, and Murray has a line in there where he says that if he tries to connect with someone and they don't respond, he thinks of them as a telephone which is "temporarily disconnected."<br /><br />So perhaps your friend's line is just "temporarily disconnected."Nighfalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01745824744507928211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-74844958533382708122011-01-09T18:20:13.239+11:002011-01-09T18:20:13.239+11:00I'm sure I have a lot to learn, R.H. On this w...I'm sure I have a lot to learn, R.H. On this we agree.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.com