tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post8080089971988289955..comments2023-06-28T22:58:28.247+10:00Comments on Sixth In Line: Fact checker: eggs boiled or friedElisabethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-87905461405546040992012-04-04T17:41:57.002+10:002012-04-04T17:41:57.002+10:00It is exhausting - this constant seeking after tru...It is exhausting - this constant seeking after truth, Kass, as you suggest, whether it's real or emotional.<br /><br />Thanks.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-12377606779218946692012-04-01T02:00:22.495+11:002012-04-01T02:00:22.495+11:00getting to the truth
as if our lives depended on ...getting to the truth<br /><br />as if our lives depended on it<br /><br />rejuvenating<br /><br />and exhaustingKasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05233330248952156754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-64136393299674089802012-03-30T20:25:50.342+11:002012-03-30T20:25:50.342+11:00I agree Marylinn. We are taking risks here in try...I agree Marylinn. We are taking risks here in trying to write about our lives in all their complexities and obscurities. Facts count but not as much perhaps as authenticity. You can have facts without authenticity.<br /><br />Thanks, Marylinn.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-81607121173732466052012-03-29T19:47:25.858+11:002012-03-29T19:47:25.858+11:00You don't sound 105 to me, erin. On the contr...You don't sound 105 to me, erin. On the contrary, to me these are the thoughts of one whose mind is agile and young enough to value quality in life and in knowledge: the poetry of words. Thanks, erin.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-35082324478468090022012-03-29T19:45:16.953+11:002012-03-29T19:45:16.953+11:00It's terrific to see you here, Cathy. 'Ag...It's terrific to see you here, Cathy. 'Agernoid' - or should it read agrenoid? - is a great word to describe how some people get when their love of facts is challenged. <br /><br />I agree we perhaps worry too much about this divide between fact and fiction but equally if we did not worry about it at all there might be other issues to deal with-living in a world without any bench marks. But as long as can moderate our vies on what's true and whose truth and in what context, at what time, and for what motives I reckon we'll be okay. <br /><br />Thanks, CathyElisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-549189699021549982012-03-29T13:14:12.754+11:002012-03-29T13:14:12.754+11:00i'm less concerned with titling something appr...i'm less concerned with titling something appropriately and more concerned and preoccupied with value. an egg once a week and such tender formulated care. if only, if only. now we've eggs by the dozen and who remembers anything at all? it's a wonder the debate exists inside of all of this superfluous modern living! (my god, i sound 105!)<br /><br />xo<br />erinerinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16636371927224076866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-67908547047163875942012-03-28T21:23:22.029+11:002012-03-28T21:23:22.029+11:00That is so interesting, Elisabeth – the line betwe...That is so interesting, Elisabeth – the line between what's 'fact' and what's 'fiction.' Sometimes I think we worry too much about it. I'm in the midst of writing a novel but it is so based on events and memories of my own life that I feel guilty calling it fiction. Still, it's definitely not factual. Well, you know what? Who cares, right? It's just a story! I'm sure all the best fiction is based in some sort of non-fiction.<br />I work in the newspaper business and I can say it's important to "get the facts" as best as one can while reporting the news - people get a little agernoid when you make stuff up!<br />Your post is well thought out and makes some interesting, relevant points. I'm so glad you found mine, leading me to yours.<br />Consider yourself followed!Cathy Olliffe-Websterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12729578896443750402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-52939897790925001912012-03-28T09:27:16.885+11:002012-03-28T09:27:16.885+11:00Your thoughts here really resonate for me, Tracy. ...Your thoughts here really resonate for me, Tracy. The significance of storytelling as a vehicle for metaphor and symbolism that enables broader deeper truths to be explored and discussed, goes without saying . <br /><br />And yet there's this longing for factual accuracy, as if, as you suggest, people then can believe it really happened - like that - or it did not. <br /><br />There's not much room for nuance or ambivalence or multiple and mixed perspectives in the absolutist view. <br /><br />I'm glad you at least do not need a 100% accuracy clause.<br /><br />Thanks, Tracy.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-68479186246505321372012-03-28T09:22:17.014+11:002012-03-28T09:22:17.014+11:00For some even the word 'memoir' connotes f...For some even the word 'memoir' connotes factual exactitude, Mim, but yours is a good idea. Memoir as writing based on memory. <br /><br />If only people would recognise how flawed our memories are but for all of that how essential they are, too. Those who lose their memories suffer dreadfully, or at least those around them, those who love them, can suffer. <br /><br />Thanks, Mim.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-46434778023489822652012-03-28T09:18:49.631+11:002012-03-28T09:18:49.631+11:00There's surely a difference between a need for...There's surely a difference between a need for so-called factual truth and proof in reportage as in what goes into newspaper accounts of events, Murr, however biased they might be. <br /><br />There are facts, but it's amazing how facts can change in different contexts or when presented in different words. <br /><br />When I studied non-fiction writing many moons ago, as an academic subject, we were given the task of comparing the same story as reported in several of our local newspapers, the left leaning ones and the right leaning and the ones in between. <br /><br />To me, it was amazing how different those same facts read when conveyed in the different formats. Even the decision as to whether a story warrants front page or back page can influence our interoperation of the story.<br /><br />Thanks, Murr.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-79381466734710947692012-03-28T09:13:27.357+11:002012-03-28T09:13:27.357+11:00Sorry to take so long to respond here, RH.
Cont...Sorry to take so long to respond here, RH. <br /><br />Controversial is the word I offer you here. These issues are under contention and there are many people who struggle with them. <br /><br />I suppose I take the line of uncertainly and doubt, Robert, because I think it's the most honest line for me, but I recognise that there are many others who reckon it's simple and straightforward, black or white. I'm afraid I cannot think like that. <br /><br />Thanks for your multiple comments, Robert.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-56190106237922138952012-03-28T09:09:42.983+11:002012-03-28T09:09:42.983+11:00Thanks, Isabel, however interesting these ideas ma...Thanks, Isabel, however interesting these ideas may or my not be, they certainly attract their fair share of controversy. Thanks.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-77198789165335275022012-03-28T04:21:15.826+11:002012-03-28T04:21:15.826+11:00If you can't stick to the facts and make them ...If you can't stick to the facts and make them interesting, if you're unsure what the facts are, give up autobiography. Give up writing.<br />Try something else.<br /><br />Watercolours maybe.<br /><br />-Robert.R.H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04639593801088008224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-40189219512932271372012-03-28T01:43:02.234+11:002012-03-28T01:43:02.234+11:00Not being able to remember precise facts kept me f...Not being able to remember precise facts kept me from things I wanted to write, knowing parts would have to be invented, feeling somehow that the fabrication would be discovered and judged. And then one day that left, never to return. What can it possibly matter to a reader, to anyone, the name of the highway with the gas station that had a raccoon chained up (and not a short chain) in the restroom? Or how many children sat at the table during the egg episode? Is this why they started calling certain works "creative non-fiction?" We are not recounting our assignment investigating human trafficking or pretending we exposed the Watergate scandal. We are trying to make sense of our lives, taking risks by doing so in public. I agree completely with your decision. xoMarylinn Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02759437467691163658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-68628346938332124612012-03-27T21:37:17.524+11:002012-03-27T21:37:17.524+11:00Oral historians explore these ideas, Andrew. They...Oral historians explore these ideas, Andrew. They also recognise how much stories can change over time and within certain cultures. It's a fascinating process.<br /><br />Thanks, Andrew.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-87507037411605740072012-03-27T21:35:33.305+11:002012-03-27T21:35:33.305+11:00I think I'm on D'Agata's side, Kirk, a...I think I'm on D'Agata's side, Kirk, and I too have not yet read his book. <br /><br />To me it's not simply a matter of being a good writer. Writing is an art and a craft but it also has something to it that is germane to the process of getting it onto the page. This differs for different writers. <br /><br />And there may be times when someone else's insistence on certain so-called facts can interfere with the emotional impact of the writing. <br /><br />I agree with you though that facts matter more in certain instances such as the one you described. <br /><br />My only caveat is that in introducing those facts, whichever writer presents them to us, he/she is going to offer his/her own bias and that will also colour said facts.<br /><br />Thanks, Kirk.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-1580749755586434362012-03-27T21:28:28.915+11:002012-03-27T21:28:28.915+11:00You're right, Kath, it is funny how some thing...You're right, Kath, it is funny how some things seemingly insignificant stick in our memories, while other events, much more monumental in significance can fade from view.<br /><br />And much of what we 'remember' has been put into our memories by others who have come before us, and maybe even at times pushed out of our memories in like fashion. 'That's not the way it was,' someone might say and we might then obediently eradicate said memory from our memory banks.<br /><br /> Isn't that what happens with propaganda? The human mind can be pliable.<br /><br />Thanks, Kath. I hope your family gets better soon.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-42794351933540618812012-03-27T21:23:25.443+11:002012-03-27T21:23:25.443+11:00I agree, Janice. The truth would not only be unut...I agree, Janice. The truth would not only be unutterably boring, it would also have to involve a complete repetition of everything that has gone on to date. No doubt impossible but the only way to get an absolute an accurate record of the so-called truth. And yet some seem to crave it.<br /><br />Thanks, Janice.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-83601407764016076532012-03-27T10:35:45.241+11:002012-03-27T10:35:45.241+11:00I feel annoyed with myself, too, Jim, sometimes wh...I feel annoyed with myself, too, Jim, sometimes when my memories insist on creeping into my writing, almost relentlessly, and I'm not here talking only about memories from the far distant past, I'm talking here about memories for recent events, yesterday, last week, whatever it is that impinges on me for some time and won't go away, at least not until I've written about it, and then it seems to settle.<br /><br /> On the other hand, I would feel bereft without my memories and especially those from my childhood. They are so much a part of who I am. <br /><br />The other night I listened to that radio programme, the one called the 'Retraction Episode' on This American life. You may know the story. If not, see: http://techland.time.com/2012/03/19/5-revelations-in-this-american-lifes-foxconn-retraction-episode/<br /><br />I listened with my husband, and although he too objected to Ira Glass's insistence on calling Mike Daisey a liar, and could sense the pleasure Glass seemed to derive-despite his protests at being distressed - from the humiliation he meted out to Daisey for embellishing the story with so-called falsehoods, my husband could also see their point about facts and truthfulness more clearly than I could.<br /><br />It was a mistake to put a piece designed for theatre onto a journalistic show. Too true, and much of this then becomes a issue of genre rather than of truth. <br /><br />Anyhow, I could go on forever about this, and as you say, we've travelled this ground before. No doubt we'll revisit it again, your blog title being what it is and my preoccupations being what they are.<br /><br />Thanks, Jim.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-17857164952859441392012-03-27T10:19:36.904+11:002012-03-27T10:19:36.904+11:00From my memory my aunt was mean, River, to force t...From my memory my aunt was mean, River, to force that egg on my sister, but since then I have come to see this aunt in a completely different light. <br /><br />She's still alive in her mid eighties and seems quite a lovely woman, not one who would force an egg on a child. I still believe she did it, but who knows how I might have looked at it wearing different shoes.<br /><br /> Your wonderful comment here reflects how differently we all remember. To my mind everyone's memory holds a kernel of truth and we're all entitled to our memories, however fanciful they might seem to others, as long as we don't turn then into gospel truths. <br /><br />Thanks, River.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-75462263949889447152012-03-27T09:05:14.603+11:002012-03-27T09:05:14.603+11:00I am always more than a little amused at people wh...I am always more than a little amused at people who insist on getting so specific about fact vs fiction in non-fiction novels. Even the best experiences, true or not, have an element of story-telling to them. Do I even want to read a book where there is no creative element, no narrative structure that plays up the elements of story-telling? Not really. It would be the most boring book in the history of time.<br /><br />I think people yearn for the truth in non-fiction because they think the "non-fiction" stamp is a guarantee of authenticity, perhaps not found elsewhere. I can watch the evening news and know, without a doubt, that facts are being construed and slanted to tell a story, and that level of journalism saddens me. Perhaps if I were angrier about that, I would look to non-fiction as some iron clad proof that somewhere in the world are printed stories that happened just as they are described, and find comfort in that. But the fact of the matter is, I do not need non-fiction to be 100% fact. I am not a fundamentalist that takes every word for gospel truth. I am a storyteller myself who realizes that the way we relate to each other is through stories, some of them true, some of them not, most a mixture of both. I can decipher metaphor and the deeper meaning behind an anecdote and not worry about whether or not it was true. I can enjoy stories for the sake of stories. If I wanted facts, I'd read the Encyclopedia.Phoenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07477498671080132176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-59305363100576164912012-03-27T04:25:14.774+11:002012-03-27T04:25:14.774+11:00Why not use the word "memoir," since mem...Why not use the word "memoir," since memory is never exact?Mimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13039776441665375475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-16187146679165490662012-03-27T04:24:46.425+11:002012-03-27T04:24:46.425+11:00Why not use the word "memoir," since mem...Why not use the word "memoir," since memory is never exact?Mimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13039776441665375475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-12987935656558673542012-03-26T20:26:02.482+11:002012-03-26T20:26:02.482+11:00Maybe it's a function of getting older, Karen,...Maybe it's a function of getting older, Karen, but I too find myself occasionally wanting to correct my husband over so-called facts from time to time. Fortunately, not too often.<br /><br /> I also try to wear a measure of discrepancy in our shared stories simply because of what I've been arguing here, that different perceptions form their own truthfulness. they might seem to contradict one another, but maybe they can still stand side by side.<br /><br />Thanks, Karen.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28133718.post-89603461839524312432012-03-26T20:22:03.679+11:002012-03-26T20:22:03.679+11:00Your biographer, Christine, reminds me of the trad...Your biographer, Christine, reminds me of the tradesman who comes to visit to repair something in your house, who then spends a great deal of unnecessary time telling you what his predecessor did wrong. <br /><br />It seems so unhelpful in the long run. We all tend to build on or contradict each other's versions of events, and it can, as you suggest, become tedious.<br /><br />Thanks, Christine.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015624747225433940noreply@blogger.com